Tuesday, May 31, 2011

Another RH Bill Argument Scenario

Before I begin, let's recite the mantra:

I support the RH Bill!


On May 25th, a cousin of mine tagged me in a photo showing a hypothetical diagram of the expenses the nation would incur if the RH Bill is passed.

It bore the caption, "And you think the current form of the RHB is sexy?"

I responded in a way that somehow initiated an argument.  No, not with my cousin, but two other people whom I didn't know.  I don't know if you're going to like how it turned out, though.  I'm not sure I do.  I'm posting it here for public viewing purposes.

And, oh, while I was responding to most of BP's early arguments, I was watching Glee's final episode -- something that holds more of my interest than arguing with antagonists.  I know I could have done better in some points.  I have so many more things to say now, but, alas, they've gone silent.

In the morning, I had to check it before leaving for Dumaguete City and typing arguments almost caused me  to "no show" on my trip.

This entire thread is unadulterated.  I did not edit it in any way except for the spaces, font size, and boldface.

You can click on this LINK if you wish to see it -- if you have appropriate permission.  Maybe you'd be required to add my cousin as a Facebook friend first.

Ludwig Bon Quirog:

This diagram is still purely hypothetical... the point is, I want this to happen and we can beat each other up about it for sixteen hours, I'm still going to argue that it's beneficial and practical because it's biggest aim is to proliferate EDUCATION. The issue on distribution is not the whole point of it. If you're going to bomb it because it's the most logical thing to whine about, fine. Be that way. I'm sticking to education because that's what it's primarily all about. This is for the eleven women who die everyday. This is for the midwives who fight to battle ignorance. This is for the pauper who knows no other recreation but making children. This distribution issue is subjective and can be amended when it's being discussed in a productive manner. If you're just going to pick on the whole issue endlessly because of it, you're not going to amount to anything.

I'm just saying.

May 25 at 5:51pm · Like ·  2 people

Alistair Jephte Migriño Caseñas:

There are parts of the current incarnation of the RHB that raise a couple of red flags. Like I once said, I'd be amenable to it when those red flags are eliminated. It's the EDUCATION that we can concur on, Kuya Lud. You know that.

May 25 at 11:24pm · Unlike ·  1 person

Ludwig Bon Quirog

:D But I'm not against contraception either... if it's for those who need it, then be it. Certain limitations just need to be set. STRICT and STERN limitations... especially regarding disbursement of funds. as long as the money that's currently being funneled into corrupt hands gets where progress is attainable, meaning a newly married poor Juan won't have to live life with 12 hungry children, then I'd be proud to say "my taxes paid for some of your condoms."

May 25 at 11:30pm · Like ·  1 person

Alistair Jephte Migriño Caseñas

Which is where the bulk of the red flags are found. Funds tasked by Jose for the RHB could be used for other long-term aspects such as education, infrastructure, and what have you. Taxing Juan to pay for Pedro's condoms... For one reason or another, I smell a rat.

May 25 at 11:33pm · Like

Ludwig Bon Quirog

Hey, like I said... as long as it helps him start. of course, the limitations include stipulations of it never becoming a "forever" thing.. it's just to help him start the husband's job.. because if he derives productivity from income and education while not having to be burdened by more than one child at early marriage (assuming the woman was impregnated before marriage, as is the usual case), he could afford his own condoms later.. and by education, the woman will learn her choices (not getting pregnant if not desired/planned).. so she could do her part in generating income.. yes, there will be rats... but they will have to die at some point as in a heavily controlled scenario with a well-built infrastructure (as we want to put it), rats will not have the opportunity to reproduce... ^_^

May 25 at 11:39pm · Like ·  1 person

B.p. Betterphilippines

just wondering, is there no other way to provide rh education?

May 26 at 1:28am · Like

B.p. Betterphilippines

can't the government just use mass media to promote rh-related information?

May 26 at 1:29am · Like

Ludwig Bon Quirog

The gov't actually can. but we need concrete programs here.. we need hands on participation in this by people who know what they're doing... the government is now refusing to sit and watch things happen--leaving people to each his/her own.. we ought to be more supportive now that something progressive is underway... it is polite to argue specifications, but to suggest killing the entire bill on grounds of moral brouhaha is just sad... we can't afford to just watch sparks fly after releasing some sort of mass media program... progress needs to be calculated after input... also, there are baranggays in the country that don't have access to mass media..

May 26 at 1:34am · Like

B.p. Betterphilippines

perhaps the government should consider providing radios to those isolated barangays.

May 26 at 1:37am · Like

B.p. Betterphilippines

i'm not against the idea of providing rh information and making it more accessible. i also support population manage for the simple reason that a managed anything is better than an unmanaged one. however, i would like to see a better version of this bill.

May 26 at 1:39am · Unlike ·  3 people

Ludwig Bon Quirog

then again, that isn't hands-on, is it? It's a lazy attempt at educating people... the government doesn't expect people to actually listen to jargon over the radio.. are they supposed to simply imagine how a condom works or what it looks like? most poor people are complacent... that's why we need to reach out to them with education first.. hands-on education... and then technology can come later... several households don't even have access to electricity..

May 26 at 1:40am · Like

Ludwig Bon Quirog

If an impacting suggestion is to be made by someone, I believe they're willing to listen.

May 26 at 1:41am · Like

B.p. Betterphilippines

there are radios that operate on energy from a dynamo.


the gov't should provide health centers manned by people who can provide not only medical attention but relevant info. i don't think this version of the rh bill is needed for that.

May 26 at 1:43am · Like

Ludwig Bon Quirog

then suggest adding and subtracting based on logic.. and readily available resources should be considered, too..

as I've said, it's not the radio issue, it's the hands-on part... people can't just imagine how things work... especially those without basic academic education.. they need people to be there to show them things..

I agree with your statement that health workers should be authorities on relevant info, too... the centers should also be readily able to provide resources such as contraception.. on a limited distribution basis so people won't end-up dependent...

In my opinion, the bill is good.. but, like the state of the nation, it needs some work.. that's not impossible to deal with.

May 26 at 1:48am · Like

B.p. Betterphilippines

may i ask how is it good?

May 26 at 1:50am · Like

Ludwig Bon Quirog

Because it is for progress through education on reproductive health... a good use of taxes for population management, for a change, instead of most of it being funneled into the pockets of bamboozling public officials...

it's a counter-measure to ignorance... a way to explain to people, especially women, that they actually have choices... it's for the welfare of the 11 women who die everyday due to pregnancy issues.. it's for those who have fallen victim to the circumstance of poverty.. it's for the packed lying-in centers who have 2 women in one bed because of too many births and lack of space.. it's for the barrio family's 6 hungry children who had to exist because their parents didn't know any better..

yes, we have mass media, but general technological advancement for many remote areas is a far-fetched idea.. we can't just expect people to listen, we must go there and speak to them where we are sure we will be listened to.. the provisions of the bill entail that..

May 26 at 2:02am · Like

B.p. Betterphilippines

aren't those the goals or objectives? what i'd like to know is how the those things will be achieved through this bill?

May 26 at 2:14am · Like

Ludwig Bon Quirog

people being more educated about choices.. a better-managed population because of lesser women getting pregnant all the time.. ergo, better resource management... lesser people getting sick.. lesser child mortality rate... more productive educational system because of the more manageable number of students coming in (in the long run)... a bigger chance at everyone actually getting educated because there doesn't need to be any competition...

May 26 at 2:18am · Like

B.p. Betterphilippines

that's the projected effect. can someone please explain how the bill, once enacted into law, will actually work?

May 26 at 2:24am · Like

Ludwig Bon Quirog

look... I'm a huge optimist about this... a supporter.. a staunch advocate.. I am someone who wants this and will fight for it.. I have broad ideas to answer your question with since I've also asked them myself... I've gotten pieces of information from people who are as positive as I am... the programs I spoke of in my previous answers were part of the infrastructure... however, I would only be giving you second-hand information if I take the liberty of doing a blow-by-blow since I'm not an authority... if you really want to learn, ask the authority... Lea Salonga is on twitter.

I will now finish the final episode of Glee. haha!

May 26 at 2:50am · Like

Warlito Nobleza Vicente

‎"just wondering, is there no other way to provide rh education?" - there's this thing called a ... school

May 26 at 2:53am · Like ·  3 people

Warlito Nobleza Vicente

the diagram is hypothetical - so is the effect of the RH Bill

as Hans Rosling - Swedish statistician Extraoridnaire who works with TEDTalks pointed out that based on empirical data - "raising the quality of life reduces population growth" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpKbO6O3O3M&feature=player_embedded

May 26 at 2:56am · Like ·  1 person

Ludwig Bon Quirog

This is all hypothetical... what makes the difference is that I'm optimistic about it. No single principle holds the absolute truth. Different approaches work for different situations.

Raising the quality of life cannot be summoned as a solution if there are way to many people to cater to. We have a population problem and we need to deal with it in an educative manner that can reach out to everyone (IN AND OUT OF SCHOOL, because NOT EVERYONE IS IN SCHOOL) so we can, afterwards, then go on to create life quality-raising programs and watch the sparks fly on their own. Until then, we cannot stay in denial and stick to the same system that we've had for so long. It isn't working because people have so many opportunities to be complacent. There is no law that serves as an affirmative action to benefit those who are underprivileged of such resources and information. This is just a small step forward.

May 26 at 3:32am · Like

Warlito Nobleza Vicente

So you just want free condoms and don't want to raise quality of life?

Are you saying the Philippines shouldn't raise its quality of life and just settle for condoms?

Yes? No?

May 26 at 3:54am · Like

Warlito Nobleza Vicente

as Hans Rosling - Swedish statistician Extraoridnaire who works with TEDTalks pointed out that based on empirical data - "raising the quality of life reduces population growth" -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpKbO6O3O3M&feature=player_embedded - it's not hypothetical - it's FACTS :)))

May 26 at 3:55am · Like

Ludwig Bon Quirog

Do not insinuate words that I'm not saying. I merely pointed out that we need to address the population predicament ahead. I also pointed out that no single principle holds the absolute truth.

Besides, that's not all the RH Bill is about, anyway.

Spearhead a bill or at least proliferate an idea that *speedily* raises the life quality of 90+ million people in this country of ours with such limited resources we have and such kind of dire situation, and I'll start putting one of my eyebrows down.

May 26 at 7:17am · Like

Ludwig Bon Quirog

Don't steer the argument in a direction which makes it seem like all it's about is population control because, mainly, it's about reproductive health education for ones with lack of access, choices, and women's welfare (before, during, and out of pregnancy context).

May 26 at 7:30am · Like

Warlito Nobleza Vicente

Spearhead a bill or at least proliferate an idea that *speedily* raises the life quality of 90+ million people in this country of ours with such limited resources we have and such kind of dire situation, and I'll start putting one of my eyebrows down. -

knock.... Consti reform anyone? Remove the 60/40 :)

May 26 at 8:26am · Like

Warlito Nobleza Vicente

the bill intends to reduce the population - if that's not population control - what is?

May 26 at 8:27am · Like

B.p. Betterphilippines

optimism is a good thing. i like it too, but i think the debate over the rh bill is getting nowhere because the whole thing seems to be marketed as the solution to a wide range of problems, which i think it really is not. i think this is the very reason why in most discussions about the bill the goalpost seems to be moving all over the place.

May 26 at 10:28am · Like

Ludwig Bon Quirog

‎"if that's not population control - what is?" and I never said it isn't. I basically said it's not only about that.

May 26 at 5:27pm · Like

Ludwig Bon Quirog

BP... well... that's your opinion and I respect that.

May 26 at 5:27pm · Like